This is my response to the latest publication in NFB from Archimedez and/or/aka Meher Ali Khan. In my previous writing I have shown clearly how death penalty for apostasy is un/nonQuranic (verses 2:256, 4:137).

In reply Archimedez has come up with a lengthy(when I printed it was 9 pages) writing which fails miserably to provide evidence that Quran advocates death penalty for apostates just for leaving Islam. It is a common tactic for Islam bashers to write tons of pages with many verses, tafsirs etc. and in most cases(if not in all cases) their follow up commentaries do not simply match, but through this they try to create an illusion that the verses actually support their claim.

One paragraph/verse should have been enough to show me that Quran contains death penalty, but alas it is not possible because it is simply not in Quran. Besides Archimedez has brought many off the topic issues which are irrelevant to the current topic . My response includes the same numbering system that Mr. Archimedez introduced, it refutes the similarly numbered arguments. I will try to be brief and to the point unlike Archimedez.

1. I have shown in my previous attempt how Mr. Archimedez twisted verses 4:88-4:91. Now in my earlier article I in no way defended faulty Islamic Shariah Law of death penalty for apostates. Rather I have shown that it is contrary to Quran (verse 2:256, 4:137). I ask Mr. Archimedez to show me otherwise from Quran itself without twisting. If many scholars have included death penalty for apostates in Shariah law depending on dubious hadiths, I do not defend them. I am not a scholar worshipper specially when verse 4:137 is crystal clear in it’s stand that cycle of belief/unbelief is allowed. As Louay Safi stated in his article, no hadith nor any scholar can negate clear Quranic stand .

2. Even after showing the definitions of hypocrites and apostates, Mr. Archimedez still wants us to believe that verses 4:88-91 is talking about apostates Again contrary to his twisting, ‘a hypocrite cannot be an apostate’ at the same time. These are two mutually exclusive terms and so one cannot be both of them at the same time. In religious term, an apostate is the one who publicly renounce or leaves a faith and a hypocrite doesn’t publicly leave his faith rather he pretends to be in the faith in front of the faithful. One cannot be both open and secret(closed) at the same time. One person can go through different states of faith and he can be hypocrite and later apostate but he cannot be apostate and hypocrite at the same time. For farther clarification lets look at the definitions from Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Main Entry: apos·ta·sy
Pronunciation: &-'päs-t&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : DEFECTION

Main Entry: hy·poc·ri·sy
Pronunciation: hi-'pä-kr&-sE also hI-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies

1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

It is quite evident from Merriam-Webster that apostasy involves renunciation( renounce->resign usually by formal declaration ) and hypocrisy involves feign(pretend, disguise, conceal).

The translation of verse 4:88 provided by Archimedez doesn’t constitute the word ‘apostates’ rather it includes ‘hypocrites’. Archimedez wrote: “Verse 4:88 states that “Allah has cast them back” into disbelief. In this case, this means “cast back” from Islam and into disbelief (this is confirmed by multiple expert tafsir, see below). That is apostasy.”~~~~

Casting back from Islam into disbelief not necessarily means apostates, in order to be apostate one has to openly/publicly renounce Islam. Verse 4:88 is talking about hypocrites as it uses the very word ‘hypocrites’, a hypocrite can also cast back from Islam into disbelief but he conceal/disguise/pretend(s).

I disagree with the interpretation of Baydawi provided by Archimedez as can be evident from above and previous writings. Tafsirs of Ibn Abbas and Al-Jalalalyn is actually clear and states the term ‘hypocrites’. Mr. Archimedez should come out of the false illusions that these two tafsirs mention ‘apostates’ where in fact they mention ‘hypocrites’.

3. Argument 3 from Archimedez’s part only includes twisting and more twisting:

a) Now Archimedez diverts from killing apostates to killing hypocrites. Yes Quran advocates killing hypocrites in certain conditions as described in 4:88-91and I have described that in my earlier writing. The new verses provided by Archimedez 33:60-62 are self –explained and refer to hypocties of Madinah at that time who do not cease/desist .

b) Mr. Archimedez also twists when he claims Quran orders to kill ‘those who engage in illegal sexual intercourse’. Look at how Archimedez includes something in bracket which is not in fact there:

Archimedez twists verse 33:60 “If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease (evil desire for adultery, etc.), and those who spread false news among the people in AlMadinah, cease not, We shall certainly let you overpower them, then they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbours but a little while.”

The addition of Archimedez cannot be found in Quranic translations, here I am producing from Yusuf Ali, Pikhtal and Sakir:

033.060

YUSUFALI: Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:

PICKTHAL: If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.

SHAKIR: If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;

I guess Archimedez is caught red-handed because killing for illegal sexual activity is simply not in verse 33:60 or anywhere in Quran.

4. Mr. Archimedez’s illusion that verse 4:91 gives “clear warrant” to kill apostates has been already proven false above and in previous article. He wrote:” Those non-Muslims who did not have a peace treaty with the Muslims were not necessarily at war with Muslims.” ~~~~ One more time lets look at verse 4:91 :

YUSUFALI: Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

PICKTHAL: Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

SHAKIR: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

The above verse in no way tells to kill those nonmuslims only for not having peace treaty, contrary to that the above verse advocates killing those who do not offer peace and also do not restrain their hands. The key point is ‘restrain their hands’.

5. This portion of arguments by Archimedez is not related to death penalty for apostasy in Quran. What is wrong with the verses that tell Muslims to kill nonmuslims in the battle fireld? Are you suggesting Muslims should do nothing and be killed by nonmuslims in the battle field? What is wrong in verses (9:32-33, 48:28,61:9) if they say the true religion will proclaim over false religions?? Same with (8:39,2:193) when they say to fight oppressor and establish justice?

Why these verses are even referenced by Archimedez? These verses in no way support Archimedez’s fantasy accusations against islam. Contrary to all baseless accusations , Allah in Quran has provided the guideline to treat those nonmuslims with respect who do not make war against muslims on account of religion nor oppresses:

060.008

YUSUFALI: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

6. Once again utter trash from Mr. Archimedez. He wrote: “Basically, all 4:137 says is that a believer may apostatize once (if he then returns to Islam), but not twice. This verse has little weight in regards to the death penalty issue, because the apostate is given a chance to repent and return to Islam at least once (as per 4:89).”~~~~~~~~~~~It is very hard to understand the nonsense in this writing. Archimedez first claimed verses 4:88-91 orders to kill apostates (which were proven wrong) and now claims a believer may apostacize once nor twice, the contradiction is apparent here. Verse 4:137 suggests Allah will not guide them who end up in nonfaith state and keep on increasing in this state.

004.137

YUSUFALI: Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.

The key point here is the end state, in the above verse the end state is nonfaith because after that they do not change rather keep on increasing, so Allah will never guide them. The above verse doesn’t say Allah will not guide those who believe, then reject, then believe, then reject and then believe. So it doesn’t matter 1 cycle or 2 cycle, what matters is the end state. Here are few more verses (all translations from Abdullah Yusuf Ali) that make it even clearer:

003.086

How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

003.087

Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-

003.088

In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-

003.089

Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

003.090

But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

003.091

As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

016.106

Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

Please note verse 3:90 where only 1 cycle is mentioned (rejection after acceptance), but the key point remains the same that the end state is rejection and increasing in defiance of faith. While all these verses and 4:137 are crystal clear that apostates are not to be killed (otherwise belief/reject/belief/reject not possible) , the verses also mention the key point that is the end state and whoever ends up in nonfaith and keep on increasing in nonfaith, Allah will never guide those. Verse 4:137 in no way says one can reject faith once not twice.

Archimedez provided few tafsirs but they do not support his claim other than the one by Qaradawi and his excuses are lame.

7.What is wrong if Allah punishes those who deny Him ? He has after all has provided the truth in Quran which is full of signs, logic, facts, truths . I believe Allah will do no injustice to any of the human being

099.006

YUSUFALI: On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the deeds that they (had done).

99.007

YUSUFALI: Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!

099.008

YUSUFALI: And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.

Archimedez please refrain from twisting verses 8:17 and 9:14. Verses 9:13-14 tells to

“fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you” and 8:17 tells about killing nonmuslims in the battle field. Other than continuous twisting I ask for a verse that suggest to kill nonmuslims who are good to muslims or do not fight or plot against muslims????????

8. Verses 2:256-257 explain themselves and do not mislead. Mr. Archimedez you do not believe Quran to be the word of our Creator then why you are afraid of the hell promissed in Quran?

9.Louay Safi already discussed about the dubious hadiths that support death penalty for apostates. Interested readers can read that wonderful article at http://lsinsight.org/articles/Current/Apostasy.htm.

10. Another unrelated writing, Mr. Archimedez please why you jump to different topics when you failed to show Apostasy killing in Quran? All the verses you mentioned have been dealt with earlier either directly or indirectly. So see above and earlier article.

Dear readers, I am sorry for the length though I tried my best to cut it short. Mr. Archimedez attempted to discourage the readers by writing long essay which doesn’t contain much substance nor contain anything new. Anti Islamic sites are full of those false accusations.

Mr. Archimedez may have hoped the readers would loose patience and thus he can get away with his falsehood. He has miserably failed to show that apostate killing is Quranic, I actually CHALLENGE him to show a verse in Quran that advocates killing apostates just for leaving Islam. He doesn’t need to write pages after pages full of mostly unrelated subjects, he just needs to provide one verse.

If he cannot provide as he cannot because such a verse is simply not in Quran, let him accept the fact that death penaly for apostates cannot be found in Quran. Once he has done that we can move to other topics one by one. Again I may refrain from replying if he continues to write long off the topic writings which have been already refuted.


Thanks,
Shamimur Rahman
Vancouver,Canada
****************************